Pre- CHOGM Media Conference

Media Centre Conference Room
Various Speakers
Friday, 1 March 2002

MR ROBERTSON: Good evening. Thank you very much for turning up in the rain. I would like to introduce the speakers here. We had the Ministerial Group on Small States meeting earlier today. As you know, small states is a very important part of the Commonwealth's work. I would like to welcome the foreign minister of Australia, Mr Alexander Downer; Sailele Tuilaepa Malielegaoi, the Prime Minister of Samoa; Fathulla Jameel, the foreign minister of the Maldives; and Mr Winston Cox, the Deputy Secretary-General, Development Cooperation. They will describe to you some of the discussions they have been having today. There will be questions at the end. Thanks very much. I am James Robertson, deputy conference spokesperson from the secretariat.

MR DOWNER: Ladies and gentlemen, this afternoon the Commonwealth Ministerial Meeting on Small States met through the course of the afternoon. We had quite a long agenda. This is an opportunity in particular for the Commonwealth to continue the very solid and strong work it has done for many years to look after and promote the interests of small states. Australia has a particular interest in small states, not that we are one; we are the sixth biggest country in the world in geographic terms. Thirty per cent of Australia's development assistance goes to small island states in the Pacific. Given our geographic proximity to small states, obviously we have a great interest in their prosperity and success.

The discussion focused today very much on trade. There was considerable interest in the new WTO round, which was agreed at the DOHA ministerial meeting in December, and the difficulties as well as the opportunities for small states in being able to participate fully and comprehensively in the WTO round. There was discussion about whether the Commonwealth will establish an office or whether other options will be used. Those decisions will be made in the fullness of time. Nevertheless, there was a broad measure of agreement. There was consensus that it was important that this issue of ensuring small states were able fully to participate and equitably to participate in the negotiations took place.

There was some discussion about the OECD harmful tax initiative. There was a view that, whilst it is appropriate for the OECD to pursue an international taxation regime which is transparent and that it is possible for countries to pursue particularly tax crimes, nevertheless it was important that small states were not discriminated against by OECD countries. In particular, it is that small states are not subjected to pressure from major developed countries to adjust their tax systems and their tax rates to levels which are not necessarily in the interests of those small states and would undermine what in many respects is a comparative advantage that those countries have.

There was some discussion about environmental issues, including climate change, and the need to ensure that the international community is appropriately focused on environmental issues during the course of the World Summit on Sustainable Development, which is to take place later this year, and the possibility of the Commonwealth being able to assist small states in dealing with those issues.

Finally, there was some discussion on the issue of the vulnerability of small states - not just, of course, their economic vulnerability but their environmental vulnerability and their security vulnerability. The Commonwealth Secretariat is going now to draw up appropriate priorities. It is important that the Commonwealth do not duplicate the work of other multi ateral organisations. On the other hand, it is important that the Commonwealth addresses the concerns of small states and is able to facilitate the small states in the pursuit of appropriate outcomes in the international agenda. I would now like to ask Winston Cox, the Commonwealth Deputy Secretary-General, if he would add a few words.

MR COX: Thank you very much, Minister. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. When you recognise how important small states are to us, it is because 32 of the 54 Commonwealth countries are small states. Therefore, this meeting of the Ministerial Group on Small States, in the context of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, is really to emphasise the importance of small states in the Commonwealth. As the Secretary-General said in his address to our meeting this afternoon, it is also to really underscore that small states do make a difference in bringing to the Commonwealth a degree of diversity as well as a need to understand the problems both of larger and smaller entities in the world. So our work on small states is part of the effort to ensure that the issues that affect small states are not neglected on the global scene.

The Commonwealth is a particularly important agency in getting this message across. We continue to take guidance from the Ministerial Group on Small States in setting the priorities for our work both in the medium term and in the long term. As Minister Downer intimated, in setting these priorities, we try not to duplicate the work of other organisations but we work, indeed, very closely with the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the European Union. All these agencies made presentations of the work that they are doing on behalf of small states. I should say to you that most of this came out of a joint task force report which was prepared by the World Bank and the Commonwealth Secretariat in trying to chart a long-term perspective on the issues affecting small states.

Having done that, we have a commitment now to report to the heads of government at every Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting to ensure that we take this work forward and also to ensure that we do allow small states the opportunity to set the priorities for our work in their area. I would like to just end there. Thank you.

MR ROBERTSON: Thank you, Mr Cox. Perhaps the Prime Minister of Samoa, Mr Tuilaepa Sailele Malielegaoi, would like to say something.

MR MALIELEGAOI: Thank you. The program we discussed this afternoon gave the members an insight into the world program of the secretariat, which covers the broad areas which Mr Downer has already touched upon. Of special interest to the Pacific is, of course, the issues of trade, which are quite important for the Pacific at the moment, especially in relation to the research capability of the Commonwealth Secretariat in respect of the immediate research into commodities that are of great importance to the small economies of the Pacific.

As we discussed this issue, I was thinking of an incident several years ago when coconut oil was looked into by the Commonwealth to counter allegations of the high incidence of cholesterol on that product, which is a commodity from most of the Pacific islands. This is an area which the secretariat could look into from the perspective of the Pacific islands, particularly the continuous risks that we have to face with new products that come on the market and the competitors' efforts to minimise the market share for the Pacific. This is an area that I was particularly interested in in the discussion this afternoon, in addition to other matters which have already been touched upon by the chairman. Thank you.

MR JOHNSTON: Thank you. I wonder whether the foreign minister of the Maldives, Mr Fathulla Jameel, would like to add to that.

MR JAMEEL: Thank you very much. I think anyone who had followed up the track record of the Commonwealth as an organisation would realise that there has been a great focus on the small states and the issues related to small states. This indicates, particularly since the mid-1980s, that there has been a very elaborate focus on the issues related to the special needs of the Commonwealth small states. After all, probably this is one of the organisations where there are more small countries than big ones. The interesting thing is that there is a shared concern by the community of the nations which involves this very fascinating organisation to look into the specific issues which are related to small states. I think the Commonwealth Secretariat has done a marvellous job in preparing different types of studies and working with the international organisations like the World Bank and IMF. The joint task force is one of the very interesting forums where serious work has been done.

I have been personally very closely associated with this for a long time. I can just very candidly say that there is no other organisation, regional or multinational, which focuses fairly and objectively on issues like the Commonwealth. So at every meeting of head of states and governments or on any other level, we come back and address the issues. I think this is a very important juncture and very important time when we focus our attention on these issues.

As the foreign minister of Australia said, there are trade issues which are emerging of serious consequence to everyone, particularly to those small countries. There are environmental issues which we really have to address as a group of like-minded countries. We need to streamline our thoughts and efforts in the international community. The main vulnerabilities and weaknesses are there, I think. We cannot really help being small. But we have to face the realities in trying to make the best of it.

One of the issues that has been mentioned at a presentation of the international negotiations as well as at the United Nations and so on is the idea of the Commonwealth having an office in Geneva itself or some other mechanism to help the small states overcome both the institutional as well as the logistic difficulties where these very difficult negotiations are concerned. These are very serious efforts probably at the regional levels now in the Pacific forum, maybe in the South African region and the COMECON. They are all addressing it. But the Commonwealth has always remained a catalyst and a very helpful organisation to us.

This is a very important time. I am sure of the conclusions and recommendations of the meeting we had this afternoon. We look forward to the summit both for the political support as well as the joint effort towards solving and facing these challenges and problems. Thank you.

MR ROBERTSON: Before I hand over to the foreign minister of Australia, Alexander Downer, who, is the chairman of this ministerial group on small states, I would like to ask you to please confine your questions, if you can, to the subject of tonight's press conference, which is the Commonwealth and small states. It is a very important part of the Commonwealth's work. The Commonwealth is very keen that the small states do reap some of the benefits of globalisation. It is doing a lot in that regard. Over to you, Minister.

MR DOWNER: If there are any questions, we are happy to answer them.

QUESTION: Foreign Minister Downer, the issue of global warming is, of course, a big one to the small states. There is concern that Australia's signing of a bilateral agreement with the US on climate change will dilute its commitment to reducing the emission of global warming gasses. Was that an issue that came up today? How do you defend Australia's signing of a bilateral agreement with the US, which has virtually pulled out of the Kyoto protocol?

MR DOWNER: The signing of a bilateral agreement with the United States does not have a bearing on the Kyoto protocol. The signing of the bilateral agreement with the United States is an agreement for Australia and the United States to work together on the science of dealing with the climate change issue. Quite the contrary to the suggestions of some people that this is an attempt to torpedo the Kyoto protocol, this is actually an attempt to work with a country - the United States - which has enormous scientific sophistication to ensure that, from a scientific point of view, not just from a political point of view, these issues of greenhouse gas emissions are addressed. That is the object of the agreement. The agreement is to work on finding ways of mitigating greenhouse emissions. The signing of the agreement is not signing an agreement in relation to the Kyoto protocol. It was an Australian suggestion. Nor is it being put forward by Australia as an alternative to the Kyoto process. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with our scientists working with American scientists to address the problems of greenhouse emissions.

QUESTION: What about Australia signing the protocol?

MR DOWNER: That is something that we will obviously consider in the fullness of time. It is not a matter that we have considered in this meeting today.

QUESTION: This is a question for Mr Cox. The issue of the OECD came up. For Caribbean countries there has been a conflict with the OECD for quite some time. What specifics were agreed on the issue of small states regarding help for Caribbean countries in dealing with the OECD on this harmful tax competition issue?

MR COX: There was a very clear statement at the meeting that small states and the OECD and, indeed, the entire international financial community are firmly agreed on anti-money laundering. Nobody wants their financial system to be used to launder the profits of transnational crime or to be used as a means of financing terrorism. That was clearly agreed at the meeting today. Everyone wants to have transparent and robust financial systems which adhere to standards and practices that ensure both transparency and robustness.

But as Minister Downer said in his opening remarks, the transparency and robustness of the financial system does not depend on rates of taxation. There is a very clear commitment to the sovereignty of all states to set their tax policies and to fix rates of taxation that are consistent with their requirements for revenue and expenditure to achieve their developmental objectives.

So that is not in dispute either at this meeting. We want to work with other agencies to ensure that countries have the transparent and robust systems that they seek and also to ensure that the tax regimes and the tax legislation which they put in place have the characteristic of transparency, clarity, and unambiguity and enforceability. We can do that by helping the preparation of tax legislation and also through the Commonwealth association of tax administrators by training tax administrators in our small States.

QUESTION: Was any decision taken demanding of the OECD that it drops this name and shame demand that it intended to by the end of February/March, if all of these countries didn't comply?

MR COX: I think 28 February was supposed to be a particular deadline for the OECD and as far as I am aware a number of countries have reached an agreement with the OECD and the OECD itself has moved back from the name and shame position thanks to the effort of the Commonwealth OECD member, including our host Australia.

QUESTION: My question is to the Foreign Minister from the Maldives and the Prime Minister from Samoa. The British Prime Minister, Mr Blair, has apparently raised concerns about the Australian scientific agreement with the United States suggesting that it could undermine the Kyoto protocols. Are you concerned about that? Are you satisfied with Mr Downer's assurances and are you pleased that Prime Minister Blair has said he wants to raise concerns over global warming here at the CHOGM conference, Samoa and Maldives?

MR JAMEEL: Well, I think it was very earlier explained by my distinguished colleague about the position of Australia. Of course, we have a very close cooperation with Australian environment on the scientific side of the issue. We are getting a lot of assistance in the Pacific region, although we are nowhere in the middle of the Indian Ocean. We have a very close cooperation on the entire range of environmental issues with institutions here in Australia. So we have no difficulty at all in getting along with these. Of course, the protocol is an instrument which is internationally located and there are so many parts of it and we all know the difficulties even at the time when we had the discussion at Kyoto and then the recent conference in Bonn. It was, I think, a very challenging atmosphere and I think we came out with something which was better than nothing at all. This process will be a long process because there is no easy fix to a problem - rather it is a phenomena and the associated problems which we inherited. I think we will continue to work with the Commonwealth bilaterally and globally to facilitate the measures to take us to that targeted objective. Thank you.

MR MALIELEGAOI: I can see no difficulty if the Prime Minister wants to raise it in the meeting.

QUESTION: Mr Downer, there has been no mention of the refugee as well as human trafficking, as well as drug smuggling within the Pacific region. Is this serious enough to be considered at this level? Will it be ever discussed at this level?

MR DOWNER: There wasn't any discussion about those issues here today at the Ministerial Group on Small States. That's my knowledge. I don't think anyone mentioned those particular issues but I can report to you in any case there was a very fullsome discussion and a very strong consensus about how to deal with these issues at a conference in Bali yesterday and the day before and Fiji participated in that conference and made a valuable contribution to the discussions.

QUESTION: Mr Downer, you obviously have had a very full day today, first at CMAG this morning and then this afternoon chairing on the ministerial.

MR DOWNER: And I came on a plane from Bali. I like you because you are a compassionate person.

QUESTION: We are getting a full briefing on what happened at the Small States meeting today and I appreciate you like to focus on that here, but there's a lot of interest in what happened at CMAG today. Is there anything at all that you can say about today or perhaps comment on the fact that there was no briefing at the CMAG, whereas there's one after this important meeting?

MR DOWNER: If you don't mind, colleagues, if I just answer that question, because there's obviously a lot of media interest in that, to explain to you what the situation is. It was agreed at the CMAG meeting that we wouldn't talk publicly about what happened at the meeting and I apologise for that because it's a very media unfriendly answer to a question. In any case, it was agreed that what we would do is we would present our report through the Chairman of CMAG, the Botswanian Foreign Minister tomorrow and that we would leave discussion about the issues on the CMAG agenda, and obviously Zimbabwe is one of those to the presentation of the CMAG report and the discussion amongst leaders and we thought all of us as members of CMAG - I mean, our positions are pretty well-known on this issue, but we thought it would be best to leave it for the leaders to address; not get into a kind of preliminary public discussion. That was the reason we thought that. I mean, I think, you know, it would be disrespectful for the leaders - for us to have a meeting on something which was obviously a high profile, energised issue like Zimbabwe and then come up and make a lot of comments before we presented our report to the leaders. I think all of us rather felt that. So I'm sorry to say I don't have any information for you on Zimbabwe or the CMAG meeting quite generally.

QUESTION: Going on to CMAG, do you think CMAG has got enough powers to take action against countries within the Commonwealth? Obviously, it's an unusual situation at the moment; with the Zimbabwe election being held next week, we won't have a CHOGM in a month's time if the leaders then debate what they should do. Do you think the CMAG has enough clout to be able to do something about it?

MR DOWNER: I suppose in terms of clout about any particular issue this is a time when the Commonwealth is in the best position to deal with whatever concerns the Commonwealth might have because the Heads of Government are the ultimate authority of the Commonwealth and the Heads of Government are meeting tomorrow and on Sunday. As far as CMAG is concerned, CMAG in effect has a constitution and its constitution is articulated in the Millbrook plan of action. There was some discussion about it at the Durban Commonwealth Heads of Meeting as well but the Durban plan of action provides the powers of CMAG and it operates in upholding the Harare declaration. So they are the powers that CMAG has. They are quite extensive powers. CMAG suspended Fiji from the Councils of the Commonwealth, it suspended Pakistan from the Councils of the Commonwealth, where in both of those cases elected Governments were overthrown. So it has some powers and it's a very useful part of the Commonwealth.

QUESTION: Foreign minister...

MR DOWNER: You have had one question. I gave you an excellent answer to your question, too.

QUESTION: Do you think CMAG's powers could be broadened, for instance, so that it could intervene with Zimbabwe?

MR DOWNER: That is too much of a leading question, with the greatest respect. We want to stick to passing a report and recommendations to the leaders and the leaders to consider that issue.

QUESTION: Well, speaking more generally then, do you think the powers should be broadened?

MR DOWNER: There has been a high level review group which has met over the last couple of years, since the Durban Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which has looked at the question of the powers of CMAG. Changing the powers of CMAG would require a consensus. The present powers that CMAG has, based on the Millbrook power of action, came out of a consensus at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Auckland some years ago. If the leaders choose to adjust those powers, that will have to be done by consensus.

MR ROBERTSON: Any Small States questions?

QUESTION: Mr Downer, was there any discussion today about the debt that's owed to larger countries in the Commonwealth, such as Australia, by the Small States and if not, what's Australia's position on the debt that's owed to it by some of the smaller States? You know, for example, could it be wiped?

MR DOWNER: Not today, that wasn't a particular scope of discussion, but in general Australia doesn't have too many substantial debtors which are developing countries and particularly which are seriously indebted developing countries.

QUESTION: Bangladesh.

MR DOWNER: Not off the top of my head, no, I don't think so. Of the heavily indebted poor countries are the so-called HIPC countries. My recollection - I'm casting my eye around for an advisor here, but my recollection is Vietnam might be one that has outstanding debt to Australia, but we are under the HIPC initiative. We have dealt with the substantial debts that are owed to Australia by those heavily indebted poor countries. I think he's nodding, so I think I have got that right. We have a very supportive HIPC initiative but, you know, this is never easy, this question. It is about, of course, wanting to do what we can to relieve the enormous burden that particularly poor developing countries have of debt and the arguments have been well made by many, NGO, World Bank and others. On the other hand, it is important that there is some conditionality attached to the forgiveness of those debts because if there were no conditionality at all, then there wouldn't be any guarantee that the benefits of forgiving that debt would be passed through to the people who need the help, for example the education and health systems of heavily indebted poor countries, and there wouldn't be any guarantee either that such enormous debts wouldn't very quickly be accumulated again. So there is a debate particularly within the international financial institutions and the member States of those institutions and with developing countries about the conditions themselves, whether the conditionality is too tough or whether it isn't. That conditionality in recent years has been softened somewhat and I think that the international community needs to keep an open mind the whole time as to that conditionality because it is a very important, simple principle that those countries which are particularly poor countries, which are overburdened by debt, are able to find some way through that problem. I do think that is a very important thing to try to achieve. Winston Cox would like to comment on that.

MR COX: About a little over seven days ago, in fact, there was a meeting of Commonwealth countries that are HIPC countries in Malawi. The Minister mentioned the issue of conditions. There was a very unanimous agreement among the HIPC countries in the Commonwealth that the preparation of strategy papers that deal with the issues of poverty reduction in those countries must remain central to the HIPC process. There will be sent forward to the Heads of Governments, also, a report on the HIPC initiative and on ways and means of ensuring that it is flexibly and sensibly applied to deal with the problems of high indebtedness or heavy indebtedness by poor countries.

MR DOWNER: We will just have a couple more questions, particularly from people who haven't asked a question yet. The gentleman at the very back there with the blue and white shirt.

QUESTION: Did the CMAG meeting today also reveal the Fiji situation?

MR DOWNER: Same in relation to the other questions that have been asked about CMAG, just to tell you, though, that CMAG made a very specific decision in its meeting on 13 January on Fiji, on lifting the suspension of Fiji as a result of the Fiji elections and, of course, Fiji is represented at the CHOGM meeting and at the ministerial meetings here today as a result of the decision that CMAG took on 30 January.

QUESTION: Mr Downer, the Prime Minister's meeting with Tony Blair this evening, I presume you would have briefed him on the outcome of CMAG. Have you done that, and do you expect that they would come up with some sort of consensus approach this evening?

MR DOWNER: I don't know. I am sure Mr Howard and Mr Blair will have a very successful and full meeting this evening and I have had quite a long discussion with Mr Howard during the course of this evening. Okay, last question. I am going to give it to you because you are just so insistent.

QUESTION: Was there any discussion at all at the Small States session on how ethnic rivalries in small countries can affect their development? I am thinking of two cases in particular, Fiji and my own country Guyana, where there are substantial ethnic groups that are in competition for power and so forth and how this kind of rivalry can affect development and prevent stability and prosperity.

MR DOWNER: Winston, you can correct me if I am wrong, but my recollection is that the Prime Minister of Solomon Islands talked at some length about that issue because ethnic conflict has been of course a very major juror problem in Solomon Island over quite some years, really, and he talked about the impact of ethnic conflict in Solomon Islands, on the stability and the prosperity of the country. So it sort of falls under the broader heading which I mentioned in my introductory remarks about vulnerability of Small States. Of course, this isn't limited to Small States but in this particular case today the focus was in the context of vulnerability and the comments were made by the Prime Minister of Solomon Islands. I would emphasise to you again this concept of vulnerability. There is a vulnerability index produced by the United Nations which focuses on economic vulnerability and a number made the argument that there are other aspects of vulnerability, not just economic vulnerability, and ethnic conflict is a component of other aspects of vulnerability. Well, thank you very much, indeed, and it's a pleasure to have been able to chair today the Ministerial Group on Small States. It was the most successful meeting and I thank my colleagues, the Prime Minister of Samoa and the Foreign Minister of the Maldives who's been a Foreign Minister for 24 years, which is a great achievement. He's saying he went to the foreign training service course in Australia in 1974 and I did the foreign training service course in 1976, so I think the prognosis is good.

ENDS