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Sustainable Energy
Development in Tuvalu
Media Conference: Sustainable Energy Development in Tuvalu
Media Centre Conference Room
Speakers: Prime Minister of Tuvalu, Paul Gilding.
Monday, 3 March 2002
CONVENOR: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I would like
to welcome you the media groups. Thank you very much for coming
to this afternoon's press interview. I would like to introduce our
members who have come here. On my right here is the Prime Minister
of Tuvalu, Mr Koloa Talake. The Prime Minister's representatiave
is Mr Paul Gilding, chief executive of Ecos Corporation. The furthest
away is Mr Andrew Booth. He is the project director of Irwin Consulting
in Sydney. So we are generally very happy to be here. This is our
first CHOGM and we would like also to share our experience through
this interview. Before we start questions, I will ask the Prime
Minister to say certain remarks.
MR TALAKE: I would like to thank you for this opportunity
to talk to you and give you a short outline of my country's history,
what is happening there in that point of the Pacific.
We just joined the Commonwealth this time. It is our first meeting
to attend and we are very happy to become a full member of the Commonwealth
family and we hope we will do whatever we can to contribute to the
future of the Commonwealth secretariat. Thank you.
We can start now with questions from you, ladies and gentlemen.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) ways in the Commonwealth the issue
of global warming and how it might affect your country?
MR TALAKE: Yes. Well, certainly, you know, (Inaudible) in
the meeting probably on Tuesday because it is a threatening issue
to me, as head of the government of Tuvalu, what will happen to
all my 12,000 people if that activity happens, and it is actually
happening. It is not the predictions which we see in various newspapers
by scientists arguing for and against this philosophy on global
warning. In Tuvalu it is an actual real happening in line with this
being a direct effect of global warning which gives rise to our
sea level rising. It has removed a number of islands or islets and
the capital island and also the Croker Islands. Islets used to be
my playing ground when I was 10 or 11 years old. But where are they?
They have disappeared, vanished. Flooding is very common. When it
is high tide, the flo has gone right into the middle of the islands,
destroying our food crops. (Inaudible). A lot of trees which were
there when I was first born-I am 60 years old-and these things were
there and now they have gone; somebody has taken them and global
warming is the culprit there.
QUESTION: Prime Minister there has been a considerable amount
of discussion about the bilateral agreement Australia has reached
with the United States in relation to cooperation on greenhouse
global warming issues. Do you share the concerns of some critics
that a longterm objective of the privacy surrounding that objective
is to undermine the Kyoto protocols with Australia peeling off and
the event target being to separate Japan from the mandatory emission
reductions of Kyoto and and longterm ramification
MR TALAKE: I am sorry, could you repeat your question so
I can understand it properly?
QUESTION: Are you concerned that the allegedly scientific
agreement reached between Australia and the United States could
be used as the basis of an alternative regime to Kyoto and that
such bilateral agreements could undermine the Kyoto protocols?
MR TALAKE: Thank you. Yes, it is very sad, disappointing, to see
that Australia, being the biggest member of the forum, the South
Pacific forum,- turning away and leaning more on the United States
and not leaning against, you know, the rest of the members of the
forum because all these members are low lying islands and would
be the first island victims of the global warming.
QUESTION: Thank you. Australia's has been relying on research
from the national tidal facility regarding the situation in your
country. Do you accept the research that Dr Shuyer has been doing,
or is that now discredited, and does Australia then have to take
a different approach on what is actually happening with tidal levels
in your country?
MR TALAKE: Thank you. I do not support average, you know,
high tide. I repeat I do not support that theory. It must be the
extremes, you know, how the graph is moving. Is it moving like that,
like come down, or it is not a flat graph. It is moving upward,
you know, and that is what I think in my mind is the real situation.
QUESTION: The Australian government keeps saying that it
is relying on averages rather than extreme tides, as you say. Does
Australia have to rethink what it has been saying about the situation
in your country?
MR TALAKE: Right. Australia relies on the evidence, and
that is why there is no (Inaudible) sea level rising. But let us
consider that personally and what is the real situation and those
sorts of things.
I believe, you know, the graph is moving. Then the really hard
life facts that we have over there: islands are disappearing, flooding
is there, climate is changing, beaches are oceans. Don't we think
that is a good indication?
QUESTION: Prime Minister, given what you say about islands
are disappearing, you've given us real live facts that you can see
with your own eyes. What does our Prime Minister say when you talk
to him about that and tell him that the islets that you played on
as a child have disappeared?
MR TALAKE: I have not talked to John Howard about this,
but I'll be talking about this global warming at the Tuesday executive
session. So I hope the Prime Minister of Australia and all members
of the Commonwealth will listen to what's happening over there in
Tuvalu.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, what action should be taken to
protect your country from flooding and from global warming? What
can they do?
MR TALAKE: Thank you. Each island has its own sovereignty,
but being a family (Inaudible) in the Commonwealth, that is what
I think we can-the Commonwealth can do, putting in their international
conferences about the low lying islands. I think that they can do
that in that way.
QUESTION: Do you think we should develop contingency plans
to protect your country from flooding or to take more refugees-to
take refugees from Tuvalu if it is eventually flooded?
MR TALAKE: Thank you. As I said before, I was brought up
there, lived there and I'm going to die there. So one's love is
one's own country and I think our first stage will be to remain
on there rather than becoming environmental refugees.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, given that there has been so much
discussion about Zimbabwe as a Commonwealth issue, has it been harder
for you to put the issue of Tuvalu and the problem of Pacific Island
states on the agenda of this CHOGM? Has it been harder for you to
make your point when there has been such a dominant issue? PRIME
MINISTER OF TUVALU: Okay. I got your message all right. On the agenda
there is a particular item, agenda item for small states, and this
is where we small states can raise the problems we have back home.
Zimbabwe is a different case, and I think I wouldn't support, you
know, Zimbabwe to act in such a way that is contrary to the principles
of democracy, and the rule of law and so on, damaging the objectives
of the Commonwealth secretariat.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, in both the executive session
and the leaders retreat you talked particularly about some disaappointments
with Australia's stance so far on global warming. What specifically
will you be asking John Howard to do in terms of Australia's position
on global warming when you have the opportunity in either of those
forums over the next couple of days? What changes would you like
to see Australia make in relation to its global warming stance?
MR TALAKE: I would like to see that Australia considers
its situation towards the members of the forum island countries,
the small ones, because they are the most vulnerable island countries,
from the rising sea level. I think it is a matter of requesting
the Prime Minister of Australia to consider our situation.
QUESTION: Are people already leaving Tuvalu because of global
warming and, for the future, have you talked to other countries
that might take people from Tuvalu if it is necessary one day, for
example, to New Zealand?
MR TALAKE: Yes, there are a number of people from Tuvalu
who have migrated on their own initiative to avoid being drowned
by the rising sea level in Tuvalu. The New Zealand government has
given us our quota of migrants into Australia because of the sea
level rising. So hopefully this scheme will start some time later
on this year.
QUESTION: Just to clarify: was it Australia, the quota,
or New Zealand?
CONVENOR: Are you asking about migration?
QUESTION: Yes.
CONVENOR: The destination working out?
QUESTION: Yes. The Prime Minister mentioned a quota that
has been given. Was that by New Zealand or Australia?
MR TALAKE: By New Zealand.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, is your country one of the group
that is considering legal action against Australia? I notice a report
in the Guardian newspaper saying that some Pacific nations, including
Tuvalu, Kiribas and Maldives are considering suing Australia for
its failure to act on climate change. Is that a correct report?
MR TALAKE: Yes, the answer is yes, we are looking at that
very carefully because Australia, as I said, has joint sovereignty,
and we are not thinking of taking Australia an or any industrialised
country to court. The industrialised countries are the culprit of
this global warming and those are the persons we would like to take
in court. The problem is not favourably issued or addressed, sorry,
and so on.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) that a little bit. Are you saying
that Tuvalu and others are considering taking corporations, private
industrial groups, to court; and is it possible to do that in the
ICJ, or is it only national entities and governments that you can
take to the ICJ?
MR TALAKE: By commonsense, if you had not committed any
crime, you would not be taken to court. But it is the person who
has committed a crime who is taken to court and sued.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
MR TALAKE: I am talking about the International Court of
Justice.
QUESTION: Taking private corporations (Inaudible)?
MR TALAKE: Yes. If we have the evidence to support the case,
we are considering it; I got a firm stand on that. But we are doing
researches into that before we can go on further.
QUESTION: Could you say what corporationss in particular
you are referring to?
MR TALAKE: The Bakers Gas Emissions Corporation, cigarette
manufacturing companies, oil companies - the bad companies. The
good ones are our friends - car manufacturing, you know, industries
and et cetera et cetera.
QUESTION: At the retreat as well as at the executive session
in relation to the agenda item on small island states, is global
warming an issue that you want to take up personally and directly
with Mr Howard? Will you be taking it up directly with Mr Howard
and other leaders?
MR TALAKE: Being now a new member, I will just listen to
what is going on. With our situation, we are not just asking the
developing countries to reduce gas emissions. But we would like
to assist them also by contributing various issues which could reduce
gas emissions. We would like foreign partners who could capitalise
on Tuvalu's unique climate position, unique culture, unique political
and other situation and so on. So we would like to contribute to
the effort by countries to reduce gas emissions which cause the
global warming which threatens our lives.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
MR TALAKE: Okay. Tuvalu has entered into a partnership with
Paul Gilding, who is on my right. He will explain more about the
objectives of this partnership. Paul Gilding is from Ecos Corporation
and Andrew Booth, who is on the far extreme right, is from Irwin
Consulting Sydney. We will develop a proposal for implementing a
sustainable and renewable energy system for Tuvalu. I would like
to give the floor to Paul Gilding to explain more on this idea,
which Tuvalu so excitingly approves.
MR GILDING: Just a brief comment. Andrew and myself work
for companies that work with large corporations around the world,
around finding solutions to environmental and social problems in
a market context. We have been invited by the Prime Minister to
explore-I emphasise, to explore-the potential at this stage to identify
appropriate partners who wish to work with the government and the
people of Tuvalu to find solutions to the particular unique situation
that small island states find themselves in. Clearly there is a
great number of very heavily CO2 emitting power facilities in small
countries and also in our communities around the world. The belief
is that if we can find solutions work in a situation such as Tuvalu,
there are actually many small countries like that around the world
that actually provide potential for groundbreaking technologies
and systems to be applied. Theoretically they could therefore be
applied in many different places around the world and therefore
provide essentially a boost for us to apply renewable energy solutions.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, in your preparations and studies
for possible legal action, are you receiving technical assistance
from the Commonwealth secretariat?
MR TALAKE: Not at this stage, but we are receiving assistance
from our own sources.
QUESTION: Have you got a legal firm you are talking to?
MR TALAKE: Yes. It is an Australian firm that is considering
taking Australia to court.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
MR TALAKE: And an American entity who is helping us. This
person has done his research and he is coming down to visit us about
the strategy around about the third week of this month.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
MR TALAKE: Matthew and Pawa in the US.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
MR TALAKE: Surely not. I think it is in Melbourne. I think
you mean (Inaudible) it is Slayter and Gordon.
QUESTION: (Inaudible)
MR TALAKE: It is-sorry, Slayter and Gordon-it is not on
global warming; it is a different case which we are considering
taking to the International Court of Justice.
QUESTION: What about Matthew and Pawa? Is that on global
warming?
MR TALAKE: Yes.
QUESTION: And the Australian firm on global warming?
MR TALAKE: No, no.
QUESTION: Which firm is that? So we have an Australian firm
involved in the global warming issue?
CONVENOR: It is only one firm that is doing the work.
QUESTION: Matthew and Pawa?
CONVENOR: Yes, out of the US.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, you mentioned the International
Court of Justice. I understood that all the states or countries
could be taken before the International Court of Justice, not individuals
or companies. Is that right? How can you take companies to the International
Court of Justice?
MR TALAKE: Yes. Our case will be against companies who are
emitting a lot of gas into the air. But the countries, industrialised
countries, as I said before, they have their own sovereignty. We
are looking into this together with our legal colleagues, you know,
companies.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, you mentioned Slayter and Gordon.
You said that they were helping you with another issue in relation
to the International Court of Justice. What is that other issue?
MR TALAKE: What is that issue? It is an issue concerning
our treatment by a colonial master when we separated from the other
partner - from the group that is Kirabatis in the early days.
QUESTION: Is it a territorial issue?
MR TALAKE: About the unfairness of the treatment to the
two children of this colonial master and how the assets of the entity
were all given to one child. The other child was just pushed away
to go and find their own livelihood. We regard that as totally unfair,
you know, to our culture and tradition.
QUESTION: I would like to know a little bit more about this
energy system. Do you consider it to be more based on water or based
on wind, or what are you considering it will be based on on these
small islands?
MR GILDING: I do not have any answers to that at the moment.
That point of the project is to try to find what technologies and
what the moods are in Tuvalu first of all and then to research what
the potential applications could be and, then, when we have done
that, to find out who the potential partners could be. There is
a great deal of interest in a variety of technologies, emerging
technologies around the world, ranging from fuel cells, to wind
to ocean power technologies and so on. But what particularly applies
in this case, it is far too early to answer that question.
QUESTION: When do you expect that you will be able to identify
some solutions for the islands?
MR GILDING: I would say it would be six to 12 months away.
QUESTION: Prime Minister, you were asked a question down
here: you cannot take a corporation to the International Court of
Justice; you can only take countries. You seem to be trying to take
a corporation. How are you going to do that?
MR TALAKE: We will find out and listen to the advices from
legal attorneys in these cases. But we think there is room to take
these cases to the International Court of Justice. Being a member
of the United Nations, I think we can find a venue and bring a big
corporation to find out the true way of taking cases to the International
Court of Justice.
CONVENOR: If I may just clarify that. As the Prime Minister
was alluding to before, he described a preliminary stage at the
moment in terms of researches and consultations with this American
firm. Through those consultations we are looking at having options
about how best these litigations could take place if indeed they
were in support of our course cause, you know, to lessen the acts
of countries that are polluting and having high level of emissions.
QUESTION: So does that mean you might end up taking sovereign
nations rather than corporations to the court?
CONVENOR: Yes, it is being considered and with this company
from the US.
QUESTION: I am sorry, I am just trying to clear this up.
So you are considering not just taking the corporations; you are
considering taking the countries where those corporations are based
and doing the polluting?
CONVENOR: To clarify, essentially we have discussed that
perhaps we take the sovereign countries until there are other ideas
put by this firm. So we are still finalising and seeing what are
the most effective options to take.
QUESTION: Just a point of detail. Is this a Washington DC
based firm?
MR TALAKE: Yes. I think it is a firm in Washington DC; that
is where it is situated. I am not quite sure. It is either there
or New York.
CONVENOR: Okay. Thank you very much for your time.
ENDS
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